[The Knowledge Project Ep. #169] Julie Gurner: Caring Deeply, Challenging Directly (Part 1)

Shane Parrish: Julie, I think we should just dive right in. Let’s start with discipline and motivation. You’ve said that relying on discipline is the worst strategy you can use and suggest we replace it with something more powerful.

Julie Gurner: Yes. I mean, one of the things that I think about is that oftentimes people get the advice that you have to rely on discipline. From working with people who are at a very high caliber of operation, one of the things that I find honestly is that discipline requires a lot of push, right? “I’m very disciplined about my workout. I’m really going to push it.” Motivation is a pull. It is something that is internal that fuels you, that drives you. A number of the people that I tend to work with are very obsessed. You don’t have to push them to go to a meeting. You don’t have to say, “Hey Ted, you have to go to work today,” and Ted’s like “Ugh,” hemming and hawing. He’s stoked to go to work. In fact, his wife is probably telling him to turn work off at night at some point, to stop talking about work, to stop thinking about work on the weekends.